Why Anti-Depressants DON'T Work

clinical depression is QUITE RARE.

No, it is actually quite common, debilitating, and it can even be deadly.

the pharmaceutical industry and Food and Drug Administration (FDA) have deliberately deceived us into believing that they do work.

That's right.

take2la, though there's a lot of citation in the article, it's still Hyman's opinion, not a study or anything.

Here is a study and not just a study but a meta-study.

It's true - they do not do anything but cause side-effects. One is better off with sugar.

Please listen to Dr. Irving Kirch's interview with George Noory.

This you will NOT hear about or see in MSM.

Here is another article by Dr. Kirsch when his study was published.

While the placebo effect does have to be accounted for many studies including STAR*D and STEP1 have demonstrated efficacy of psychopharmacology and all FDA medicine have to demonstrate efficacy against placebo. Although I can admit that effect is not always large in all cases. Also there have been studies that suggest that medicines might not be as effective for mild-moderate depression as thought but very effective for severe depression.

It's funny, Dr. Kirsch was thinking (when he set out to study it) that he would find that it worked for severe cases but not so much for mild/moderate - but he found that not to be the case.

I HIGHLY recommend listening to his interview and if you are in the field - read the meta-analysis study. It's fascinating.

Tell the whole story instead of passing along oversimplified or mis-stated information about what the proposed change is about, rather than intimating it's about a 2 year old having a fit in the grocery store.

Temper Dysregulation Disorder with Dysphoria (TDD).

Let me start by explaining that the creation of TDD does NOT deny the existence of classic bipolar disorder in childhood. That is, although extremely rare, bipolar disorder can occur in children and adolescents, and it looks very much like adult bipolar. Instead, TDD was created to capture a valid syndrome with characteristics and outcomes that are different than those of bipolar disorder. The available scientific data supports the position that the TDD syndrome is NOT simply the manifestation of bipolar disorder in childhood. This means that thousands of children that have been diagnosed with childhood bipolar disorder may not have bipolar and instead have a completely different syndrome now called Temper Dysregulation Disorder with Dysphoria.

So what is TDD?

Here is the proposed criteria for TDD:

A. The disorder is characterized by severe recurrent temper outbursts in response to common stressors.

1. The temper outbursts are manifest verbally and/or behaviorally, such as in the form of verbal rages, or physical aggression towards people or property.

2. The reaction is grossly out of proportion in intensity or duration to the situation or provocation.

3. The responses are inconsistent with developmental level.

B. Frequency: The temper outbursts occur, on average, three or more times per week.

C. Mood between temper outbursts:

1. Nearly every day, the mood between temper outbursts is persistently negative (irritable, angry, and/or sad).

2. The negative mood is observable by others (e.g., parents, teachers, peers).

D. Duration: Criteria A-C have been present for at least 12 months. Throughout that time, the person has never been without the symptoms of Criteria A-C for more than 3 months at a time.

E. The temper outbursts and/or negative mood are present in at least two settings (at home, at school, or with peers) and must be severe in at least in one setting.

F. Chronological age is at least 6 years (or equivalent developmental level).

G. The onset is before age 10 years.

H. In the past year, there has never been a distinct period lasting more than one day during which abnormally elevated or expansive mood was present most of the day for most days, and the abnormally elevated or expansive mood was accompanied by the onset, or worsening, of three of the “B” criteria of mania (i.e., grandiosity or inflated self esteem, decreased need for sleep, pressured speech, flight of ideas, distractibility, increase in goal directed activity, or excessive involvement in activities with a high potential for painful consequences; see pp. XX). Abnormally elevated mood should be differentiated from developmentally appropriate mood elevation, such as occurs in the context of a highly positive event or its anticipation.

I. The behaviors do not occur exclusively during the course of a Psychotic or Mood Disorder (e.g., Major Depressive Disorder, Dysthymic Disorder, Bipolar Disorder) and are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g., Pervasive Developmental Disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, separation anxiety disorder). (Note: This diagnosis can co-exist with Oppositional Defiant Disorder, ADHD, Conduct Disorder, and Substance Use Disorders.) The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a drug of abuse, or to a general medical or neurological condition.

The syndrome captured by section A-C (frequent and intense temper outbursts, happening several times per week in the context of negative emotionality) is the core of the symptoms that has been incorrectly interpreted as indicative of childhood bipolar disorder. Section H is very interesting. It states that this diagnosis is not appropriate if the person has experienced classic mania (e.g., bnormally elevated or expansive mood), as in such a case the diagnosis of bipolar is likely more accurate.

So why did the DSM-V decide that this syndrome is not simply bipolar disorder of childhood?

1. Lack of continuity to bipolar.

If TDD is simply the expression of bipolar disorder during childhood, then children diagnosed with this condition would eventually develop symptoms of classic bipolar disorder as they reach adulthood. The data do not support this hypothesis. That is, children who display the TDD syndrome in childhood (and are often incorrectly diagnosed as bipolar) are not more likely to develop classic bipolar disorder later in life as their peers (see Brotman et al., 2006; Leibenluft et al, 2006; Stringaris et al, 2009). Instead, these children are more likely to develop depression, not bipolar!

2. Different Biological Markets.

Youth who are diagnosed with classic bipolar differ significantly from those who have a TDD-like syndrome (see Brotman et al, 2010; Guyer et al, 2007; Rich et al, 2008). If TDD is simply bipolar, then the biomarkers of TDD should be similar to those of bipolar, but this is not the case.

3. Different Demographic Factors.

If TDD is simply bipolar, then the gender distribution of TDD should be similar to that of bipolar. This does not appear to be the case. Specifically, there is no gender differences in the rate of classic bipolar; male and females are equally likely to develop the condition. However, the TDD-like syndrome is disproportionately observed in boys rather than girls.

4. A need for a new category that would impact treatment and research.

In theory, the presence of TDD will educate clinicians, researchers, and the public that this syndrome is not simply a version of bipolar disorder. This would facilitate research on the causes, features, and treatments for this condition. This has major implications for treatment. For example, the standard treatment for bipolar disorder does NOT seem to work in children that have the TDD syndrome (Dickstein et al, 2009). By explicitly stating that TDD is not bipolar, researchers would be less likely to approach the search for treatments from a “bipolar framework”, which would potentially facilitate the discovery of more effective interventions. http://www.child-psych.org/2010/02/childhood-bipolar-disorder-is-not-bipolar-dsm-v-and-the-new-temper-dysregulation-disorder-with-dysphoria.html

Yes, and George Will got dinged for it by two people who know WTF they are talking about.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/04/AR2010030405004.html

What he wrote was two degrees this side of ignorant and did a great job showing is ignorance and perpetuating stigma. No wants to be labeled. No one wants a brain disorder or diagnosis. No one wants bipolar, ASPD, anorexia, RAD, etc. The fact is they exist and like other diseases and disorders the medical community is responsible for determining a diagnositic criteria and treatment protocols, among other things. So just like the VAST conspiracy on the part of the "traditional" medical field that treats everything from broken bones to brain tumors, I expect Big Pharma and doctors are all in collusion to poison and kill us, addict us and @!$%# up our brains to keep us coming in and make them rich.

I have a huge problem with the Pharm lobby. I have a problem with the FDA. I have a problem with trials. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm not a paranoid with a fixation or agenda. I do research, educate myself and work with my doctors and counselors. I advocate for myself. That is my responsibility. Fear mongering and spreading mis-information and half-truths is irresponsible and dangerous.

Take,

I suppose you noticed that there are a couple of people on this thread who actually KNOW something about psychiatric disorders. What you fail to understand is that these disorders are only diagnosed when they are not appropriate for developmental age. While it is appropriate for a two year old to have a tantrum, have you ever seen a ten year old throw a similar tantrum? Imagine how that impacts his/her ability to develop good social relationships.

Have you ever seen someone with a true Oppositional Defiant Disorder? If that is not treated as a child, it WILL develop into a major disorder as an adult. It also destroys family, educational and social relationships.

Have you ever seen a child with a true ADHD, someone who has come to hate themselves because they can't pay attention, no matter how hard he/she tries?

That being said, I agree that many times, normal behaviors are being pathologized. It is easier to medicate a normally active kid than to engage him/her in their education. In all cases, it is a matter of degree.

good researching, take